Betsy Gaines Quammen is a historian and writer who examines the intersections of extremism, public lands, wildlife, and western communities. She received a Ph.D. in history from Montana State University, a masters degree in environmental studies from the University of Montana, and a bachelor’s degree in English from Colorado College. She lives in Bozeman, Montana, with her spouse, writer David Quammen.
(This interview has been edited for length and clarity.)
SunLit: Tell us this book’s backstory. What inspired you to write it? Where did the story/theme originate?
Quammen: I wanted to write a companion piece to my first book, “American Zion,” a book on religiously infused public lands warfare launched by the Bundys, a Latter-day Saint family in southern Nevada. They have been involved in two armed confrontations, and these actions have ripple effects in the “patriot movement” circles.
I felt a need to look at what pandemic and polarization were doing to both the intermountain West and to the country as a whole. I saw how pressures facing us here, in Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, and eastern Oregon and Washington were informed, in part, by myths — uniquely western myths, affixed to this geography but foundational to the whole country’s sense of itself, many of the same myths that informed the Bundys’ actions as well.
Still other myths lurked and lured — such as homelands, blank slates, frontlines. During the Trump years and a period of accelerating and spreading polarization, Christian Nationalists followed decades of white flight to the West, moving to the Idaho Panhandle and western Montana as they imagined an “empty slate,” a space in which they could remake communities in their likeness. Here, they saw opportunities to build strongholds as they awaited some sort of religious event like a Second Coming or a civil war, creating a redoubt in Idaho’s remoteness.
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The second reason for writing this book, in addition to wanting to understand and untangle myths, was the opportunity to get out and talk to people after being cooped up. I got to interview over a hundred people and hear their version of what a true West is. We had all become so isolated and angry over the last several years, myself included, and I wanted to get the stories from individuals instead of social media narratives.
I talked to Republicans and Democrats; Black, Native, Hispanic, Asian, and white folks; LGBTQ community members; artists, writers, back to the landers, remote workers, federal agents, the religiously devout, farmers, ranchers, teachers, activists, militia, ex-militia, and so many others. It was really fun and revelatory, and it finally got me out of the house.
SunLit: Place this excerpt in context. How does it fit into the book as a whole? Why did you select it?
Quammen: I know Colorado recently reintroduced wolves to the Western Slope and I thought this chapter might be of interest to Colorado Sun readers.
SunLit: Tell us about creating this book. What influences and/or experiences informed the project before you sat down to write?
Quammen: I’m a historian, so of course I’m influenced by the work of other historians, like Nick Estes, Heather Cox Richardson, Patty Limerick, and Shane Doyle. I was also influenced by W. Kamau Bell and Arlie Russell Hochchild, both of whom set out to interview various people with very different backgrounds and perspectives.
I wanted to learn to navigate misinformation and gaps in understanding. We need to understand actual history at this time when we are seeing so much political pressure to erase it, including right-wing takeovers of school boards and fear campaigns around Critical Race Theory. I saw the country going wild over rumors around disease as well as misperceptions around social justice and partisanship, leading to ever more extremism. This worried me.
SunLit: What did the process of writing this book add to your knowledge and understanding of your craft and/or the subject matter?
Quammen: Writing a book is hard. It just is. It requires discipline and focus, which I found myself lacking during 2020-2021. That said, this book became an engaging project during those turbulent years. I learned about the art of conversation and how our present region and country are defined by western myth.
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Layered throughout the West are mythic influences so powerful that they helped drive one of the characters I write about from the Bundy battles over western public lands, Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oathkeepers, to the January 6th insurrection.
In my first book, “American Zion,” I wrote about the religious underpinnings of Cliven Bundy’s war, a Latter-day Saint rancher in southern Nevada, who, with Rhodes, engaged against in a standoff against government officials and law enforcement. This book allowed me to trace the role the Bundys and their supporters had on a coalition of QAnon adherents, anti-vaxxer moms, Trumpers, and white nationalists. Some, including Rhodes, ended up at our nation’s capital, trying to overthrow the government.
SunLit: What were the biggest challenges you faced in writing this book?
Quammen: Making everything fit together! I write about intersections of history and current events, myths and misinformation, wolf management and museums, Black Lives Matter and conquistadors, billionaires and militia, biblical notions of dominion and Native perspectives on landscape, QAnon and “Conspirituality.”
These pieces were not always easy to puzzle together, though I knew that somehow they could all fit. My husband, writer David Quammen, told me that you can always make a transition from one seemingly disparate topic to another, if you’re careful and thoughtful. I admit, I probably wrote 15 drafts or more of most of the chapters in order to make sure they held together. I hope they do!
SunLit: What’s the most important thing – a theme, lesson, emotion or realization – that readers should take from this book?
Quammen: Number one, we live among myths. We are a myth-making species. Number two, western myths inform Americans whether they are aware of it or not. Hollywood has taken all of these western chestnuts, and made us revere ideas of western cowboy culture, rugged individualism, open spaces with endless opportunities, the proving grounds of the frontier, and unimpeded freedom.
But the West is far more complicated and fragile than these impressions. It also has a history much older than the cowboy — it is the home of countless generations of Native people with their own traditions, myths, and ongoing resistance to settler colonialism.
SunLit: Walk us through your writing process: Where and how do you write?
Quammen: I write every day, either up in the turret, or down at the dining room table with my three giant dogs. I write for 3-5 hours and research for about 3-5 hours. I also read like crazy or listen to audiobooks to immerse myself in my topics.
SunLit: How did you get so many people with such disparate backgrounds and political views to trust you with their thoughts?
Quammen: I think many people grew ever more eager to chat as we wound our way through the pandemic. Also, after years of ugliness on social media, many people were tired of being mad at one another. I connected with people by finding common ground.
When I started to visit communities, I was curious about what people had to say about politics, polarization, vaccines, abortion, climate change, the federal government, their communities, extremism, public lands, guns, and conspiracy theories. I listened and began to understand how, in order to move forward, we need to be in relationship with one another. I’m rather discouraged by national politics right now, but have enormous faith in local engagement and community resilience.
That said, there are folks out there who are dangerous — extremists who want to take over school boards, city councils, library boards, states, and our entire country. Racists, anti-LGBQT and anti-choice zealots, Christian Nationalists. To fight the bad guys, we need to have healthy community coalitions and diverse networks. There are people who really want to radicalize us and make us hate one another. We are out of practice in relationship building and we need to actively re-engage in order to remain strong against toxic forces. Relationship building is key.
SunLit: Tell us about your next project.
Quammen: A ghost story book grounded in places. Think phantoms, suspense, and history. I will explore houses haunted by those who’ve committed suicide; old Chinese mining neighborhoods that that suffered violent injustice; U.S. Army forts from the “Indian wars” and bloody battlefields; old, shadowy back alleys where botched abortions killed women. I hope it’s a creepy and poignant book that helps us face our history and while engaging an interest in spine-tingling lore.
A few more quick questions
SunLit: Which do you enjoy more as you work on a book – writing or editing?
Quammen: I love editing. Writing is like opening a vein, but editing is where I feel artful.
SunLit: What’s the first piece of writing – at any age – that you remember being proud of?
Quammen: I wrote a knock-off Flannery O’ Connor piece of short fiction about a woman who dies in a bathtub. Her name was Confetti Pupil. I was in my late teens.
SunLit: What three writers, from any era, would you invite over for a great discussion about literature and writing?
Quammen: Toni Morrison, Louise Erdrich, Dorothy Parker
SunLit: Do you have a favorite quote about writing?
Quammen: “I hate writing, I love having written.” Dorothy Parker
SunLit: What does the current collection of books on your home shelves tell visitors about you?
Quammen: My husband and I are voracious book people — we have bookcases in every room. The one in our living room is two stories.
SunLit: Soundtrack or silence? What’s the audio background that helps you write?
Quammen: Silence with the occasional fussy dog.
SunLit: What music do you listen to for sheer enjoyment?
Quammen: The National, Prince, Dolly Parton, Jon Baptiste, Supaman, and Marvin Gaye.
SunLit: What event, and at what age, convinced you that you wanted to be a writer?
Quammen: That hasn’t happened yet.
SunLit: Greatest writing fear?
Quammen: Dementia.
SunLit: Greatest writing satisfaction?
Quammen: Seeing my books published.